GENERAL CHAT » RELIGION
banjo boy, I take it that you don't believe in evolution. But the way you are describing evolution isn't how it works.
monkeys don't turn into people, we each had a common ancestor. there was a creature that was some sort of sapien and a individual of creature had a mutation and became another species, but the original anscestor still existed until it died out and more mutations occured, but it is not like humans used to be monkeys, monkeys and humans both came from the same anscestor.
And frankly we are evolving... we used to need wisdom teeth to grind our food, but over the last several thousand years our skulls have shrunken because we don't need to grind our food and now wisdom teeth can't grow properly and have to be removed.
That is a perfect example of evolution.
Iantimothy: How do we know that thousands of years ago, before there were pictures or anything, that we really needed wisdom teeth? We might have found skulls from long ago with bigger wisdom teeth, but people are unique, and no two are exactly alike. Also, human bodies are adaptable to their environment, so wisdom teeth shrinking only implies that we do things differently now then we used to. Which is true. So, you're right, I don't believe in evolution.
P.S. I don't care who's common ancestor we came from, I'd still like to see a combination of two animals as the result of evolution.
i wasnt saying the religion is baloney im saying that the way they use to trick peaple in atient times is baloney. and what i said its true. ive learnd that in history classes at school. peaplein church where contiouse that paying for a house on earth wount give u a house. they stole from peaple. they used relegion as an excuse for EVERYTHING! even for power. i remember that once something happened to the entire family of a king or something and this guy was nominated king because he subornd the church peaple to tell the city of contry or whatever to tell peaple that GOD wanted the man to be king.(i dont remember things specifically) the thing is, alot of peaple from church still trick peaple like bishops and what ever. they ask for money to do things, they do things that are wrong and they change things in the bible like once i saw in a program a bishop with a homosexual guy in a debate. the homosexual comented that the last time he saw the bible there was something he read that its better to hug a man then sleep in the cold and the bishop was like thats not true and youll go to hel if ur homosexual... stuff like that. i was not offending the catholics themselfs i was saying stuff that is true now or/and b4.
ps: dont use by baloney! that my thing and its also my name on youtube...
individuals have done things that were wrong, but you can't blame an entire religion for the wrong a very small percent of people have done.
It is kind of like saying every muslim is a terrorist, every southern baptist is a member of the Klu Klux Klan, or every buddhist lights themselves on fire.
Can you give an example of what in the bible has been changed, because we have copies from very early in history and they are exactly the same as what we have now.
There are different translations because english isn't greek, but nothing in the bible has been changed. In a Catholic or most protestant bibles. It is too broad to say that things have been changed, if you could give some examples we could discuss it.
Banjo boy, you said "Also, human bodies are adaptable to their environment, so wisdom teeth shrinking only implies that we do things differently now then we used to. Which is true. So, you're right, I don't believe in evolution."
THAT is exactly what evolution is!!!! We do things differently and things change.
Puppylove: It's true that in the Bible, God does day that homosexuality is a sin. But that doesn't automatically mean that the guy's going to the bad place. He still has a chance to follow God and turn from his evil ways. So, it's not like "once a sinner, always a sinner". The Bible might very well have that verse about hugging a man in it, but back then, people didn't think like we do today. A traditional greeting was for two men to kiss on the cheek. They didn't think "This is messed up" like we would if we saw two men kiss on the cheeks. And besides, that verse was probably a metaphor.
As for the Bible being changed, I'll have to stick with iantimothy on that one. If we could have some examples, that would be great.
I also agree with iantimothy on the fact that you shouldn't judge a religion because of a few bad things that people of that religion have done.
And I wish you would stop saying baloney.
That is a good point, for us westerners it is so hard to think what it must have been like to live in the middle east in the first century, it would have been soooo different.
Ahem. Don't ANY of you ever say homosexuality is a sin and say that being gay is 'evil'. I am not gay, but I find it utterly wrong that people have such as a problem with homosexuality and go so far to say that they are 'evil ways'. Religious or not, this is 21st century, not the 18th, and homophobia is not acceptable in the slightest.
I'm not angry and i'm not ranting. I'm just saying. How is it an 'uh oh' moment when I stand up for sanity and not an 'uh oh' moment when somebody calls being gay 'evil'?
this is just one of those things people can get quite worked up about.
I'm not going to get worked up about it. Just don't you think it's wrong that someone, on a Wallace and Gromit forum for goodness sake, has deemed millions of people as evil? And don't be sarcastic, it's a serious subject.
I am not saying you will get worked up about it. Others might however.
I don't think that they are deeming the people as evil, just their actions.
Kind of like a "hate the sin, not the sinner" kind of attitude.
Thank you, iantimothy! That's exactly what I'm doing! I'll still show Christian love to a homosexual, and I won't judge or criticize them. But I don't like homosexuality, and the Bible does say that God hates it and it's a sin; I didn't say that, the Bible did. If you'd like the exact verse, just tell me and I'll find it. And besides the fact that I believe it's a sin, I also think it's just gross.
"I didn't say that, the Bible did." That sums it all up, doesn't it?
So you are only homophobic because the Bible says that homosexuality is wrong?
I've had quite a few discussions with some people on this subject. Cracking Toast, first of all please respectfully understand the word " Homophobic", is a derogatory term. It is mainly used to shut down someone’s opinion if it is against yours. (The rest of this is not a “rant” against you by the way, ( It's not really a " Rant") but I wanted to respectfully state my veiwpoint on the subject, I was just starting by addressing you. Anyway...) Someone can say, " Homosexuality is a sin, but I don't hate the actual person who is homosexual." and all someone else has to do is say, " You're Homophobic!" or A " Gay Basher!" and that accuses the other party of being something or thinking something that they never said or thought. Just because someone says " living a homosexual life is wrong." they did NOT say " I'm afraid of homosexuals" ( What " Homophobic means) It is a defensive method used when the other person doesn’t like what someone else said. The quickest way to discount someone's opinion, ( Which, however is their right no matter what it is, so accusing them of thinking negatively ( which was not said and may or may not be true) is still their privilege.) is to label them as a " Unfeeling" person just for saying the truth. That is the only way people can try to fight against truth, is by screaming it down or tainting it with thoughts and images that were never there in the first place. What I find that people have the most difficulty distinguishing between, is the action and the person doing the action. ( This is largely due to media and false advertising especially on the subject of homosexuality.) What people would have us believe is, "if you attack the action, you must hate the person, and suddenly You are the one we despise. You’re not accepting of people and you don't change with the times, you are such a bad person.." This is a LIE that is fed to us everyday in culture and media, simply because when you use simple, logical argument against something wrong, the wrong action cannot win and this frenzied name-calling is the only defense. I believe homosexuality is a sin like any other. I do Not hate the person who practices homosexuality. It is the same as when my best friend used to " Borrow" some of my things when we were little. I still like her and we are best friends to this day, but when I was smaller I confronted her and told her that her action was wrong. I still played with her the next weekend, I didn't hate her, but she could not convince me that is was Right for her to take my stuff. I still was her friend, but her action was wrong. As I said before, The action is not the person and I don't hate homosexual people, but homosexuality is wrong and people are out of line when they shut down or insult someone for saying or even thinking this. If I were to think aside from my Christian belief which says you shouldn't do it, even allowing for someone to practice it, I still will not accept that it is right. If someone has to practice it, I don't have to accept it, and I am not some kind of Unfeeling freak for not doing so. In reality, people who accept a traditional viewpoint on marriage or sexuality suffer more humiliation and labeling than a homosexual person today Why? Because they had the audacity to speak and uphold truth. I was just saying this because it is true and most people don't realize they are penalizing someone’s thoughts when they accuse them of being " Homophobes". I find it literally quite maddening, debasing, and unjust to be insulted and labeled every time I speak the truth with made -up words and terms conceived just to just to shut me, ( Or rather the truth) up. Eventually, if people stop to think about it, you have to wonder, who is really being " Bashed"?
loveshaun, do u realise how much u wrote! do u wanna kil us i dont read the bible, never had, and REALLY dont want to so i cant give u an example... another thing is that what i said was mostly how the church was in the really old days so... another detail would be that many thing wherent translated in the bible of there are somethings that dont make any sence. peaple might have took advantage of that and made their own perspectives. in history channel i watched a show for a little while that commented that jesus had a girlfriend or something. BALONEY! i dont belive that not one bit.another inportant betail is seSuality. in the bible says that u like your equal seS u go to hel. if god loves us the way we are that wount be true. i think that at least once in our lives we would be atracted to our same seS.
No, it warns against acting on that desire, having attraction is different than lust.
Puppylove, I know it was long, but I have long felt that the subjects I was talking about need to be addressed.
Puppylove, as to God loving us the way we are, it's much like the story/example I gave of my friend earlier, no matter what she did, I still liked her and I was willing to forgive her, but I didn't like the wrong things she was doing. God loves us and forgives us no matter what we do, but we have to admit the things we do are wrong and ask for forgiveness. God loving us no matter what dosen't give us "free passes" to continue in sin. We should change.
I love what you wrote, LoveShaun19! It's all so true! And puppylove, I've never been attracted to another male, and I don't think I ever will, because I think it's wrong, and I also think that it's just one of the many ways that humans try to do their own thing rather than what God wants.
LoveShaun19, I am not using the word 'homophobic' because I don't agree with your opinion. I'm using the word 'homophobic' because it is the widely used term for someone who thinks homosexuality is wrong, despite it's roots, and if you don't agree with it's use, don't lecture me, lecture everybody else too.
'homosexuality is wrong and people are out of line when they shut down or insult someone for saying or even thinking this.' You say that asthough it is fact. It's not. That is you're opinion. And not an acceptable one either. You may think it's orwellian but it's not aloud to think that homosexual actions are wrong anymore. Racism was acceptable 100 years ago, not at all now. Sexism was acceptable 100 years ago, not now. Being against Homosexuality is not aloud now. That is how it is. I understand you don't hate homosexual people but you hate their actions. But how can you really do think that it is wrong and that I, and I honestly feel like the only sane person in this conversation at the moment, am out of line! How much more insulting and hypocritical can you get? You are the people who are out of line! I don't understand how I am being made to feel that I am in the wrong by all of you when i'm the only person here who is standing up for fellow human beings and their actions!
( sorry this is a bit long, I have trouble writing concisely, I put it in two parts, but it was too be read as a whole.)Crackingtoast, you way misunderstood me, I did say ( Or maybe I forgot) That what I was going to say was not a personal " Rant" or lecture against you, It was just a general statement. I did not mean to personally offended you by stating my beliefs, and I am sorry if you took it that way. ( the following is NOT a personal attack on you when I say " People" I mean in general not necessarily that it is something you did unless I address you directly) I am sorry If what I wrote seemed " Hypocritical" to you but what I was trying to point out is a lot of people call those who believe in traditional marriage names and try to shut down their beliefs by saying they're wrong or that they "bash" homosexual people when in reality it is hypocritical to say such things, because people who uphold beliefs like I do get "bashed" just as much if not more. About comparing the homosexual debate with racism, they are two completely different things. In the case of racism, the people who had bigoted or racist beliefs needed to be corrected, and people of other ethnicities deserved equal rights. In the case of homosexuality, my opinion is not wrong and does not need to be shut down. I'm not saying "Don't allow homosexuals in public places" ( like with racism) or, " They are not equal human beings to me." I am saying I don't agree with the practice and I don't have to be forced to, and I'm sorry if this offends you, and if it's not popular, but it is not wrong and it is certainly not " banned". I don't know where you are from so this may not apply, but I live in The United States and according to the Constitution,( The rules for governing the country and people) all American citizens have freedom of speech. Period. ( Of course, if someone is using profanities right and left, you can ask them to leave an establishment or something) As to thought, NO ONE has the right, either government Official, or just your boss at work, or even a schoolmate, to punish or reprimand it. You can disagree with someone and punish them if they Act on a thought that is against the law, but you CANNOT, punish ( such as in court) someone for just THINKING anything. You ( I mean generally) can be offended, or not agree with it, but they have the right to have that belief, just as reversely, you have the , you have the right to disagree with it.
i dont think beeing homosexual' is wrong at all. i dont think its a sin. i think that its ok in gods eyes, besides, u guys can never know that it completely true or completely right in this world. no one knows. no matter what says in the bible, there are manny loopholes and many little detail unanswerd in this world. u can have your belives. that all well but u cant say that everything in the bible is correct and true. who knows? the inportant thing is to do what YOU think is right. i like the homosexuals( at least guys) cause they can be really good friends! i have many of them
( continued from above, this was supposed to be with the first part)In the case of homosexuality, equal rights is not what is wanted. It is not " Justice" that is being preached( Although it is often dressed that way) it is DOMINANCE. If all that was desired was an equal right, it wouldn't be necessary to call my views " Outdated" or wrong ( still, not a personal lecture, I write generally). It would be " Fine you go your way, and I'll go mine" but it is " I'll go my way, and you better agree or admit your way is wrong or else I get offended." I don't ignore, insult, or force anyone homosexual into my belief, I don't deny anyone their fundamental right to an opinion However, It is my right to say it is wrong, even if no one agrees with me. I stated what I said as fact, because according to my spiritual beliefs, it is, and I believe that. When I said it was " Out of line" to shut down someone because of their beliefs, I meant it. I don't try to " put down" people who have differing opinions with me ( On any subject) I just exercise my equal right to a differing opinion. ( Now speaking personally) Crackingtoast I will not try to force you to say I'm right nor will I deny you the right to disagree with me, you have every right to not agree with me, but I also have the right to state what I believe and I have the right to say it is true whether you agree or not. I mean no insult or offense, If you feel you are in the right, that is your privilege, I was not saying that you ( or anyone else) was wrong for expressing an opinion, but for denying others the right to one. Everyone has the right to disagree just like you have the right to disagree with me if you want to. I will not force you otherwise, but I will not be shaken in my beliefs either . ( general speaking)
Put a little more simply, It is not wrong to say or have the onion that someone's thoughts and beliefs are wrong, but it is wrong to deny them the right to it ( I'm speaking about onions, not actions .) Just because someone disagrees, does not make them " Mean" " Outdated" or anything else. It simply means they don't agree.
wow! that what she said
Um , what do you mean?
Gosh, people how can you think homosexuallity is a sin?
The problem people have had since the beginning of time, is they write different off as bad. Let people make their own choices! Here's a time line to prove my Different=Bad untruth point
0 AD: Lepers=Bad. Untrue they just have a disease
0 AD: JESUS=Bad. Untrue he was ahead of his time by about a million years
40 AD: CHRISTIAN=Bad. Untrue they just were unaccepted until emperor Constantine
1600 AD: PROTESTANT=Bad. Untrue, in fact, they were far ahead of the at-that-time corrupt catholic church
1847: Morman=Bad. Untrue, they just have their own beliefs
1940 AD: Jewish=Bad. Untrue, Hitler was a maniac
1960 AD: African American=Bad. Untrue, they are equal in everyway
2000 AD: Muslim=Bad. Untrue, they are equal in every way to any other human being. Not every Muslim is a terrorist, or vice versa
2000 AD: Gay=Bad. Untrue, they make their own desicions, and as long as that doesnt in-any-phisically-negative-way affect you, you should leave them alone.
Oh look, just about every now-majorly-accepted religion is on there. It's hard to believe Christianity was once held in the same view that so many people on here now view homosexuality, and one day just like Christianity now is, homosexuality will be accepted. I aint gay, but that doesnt mean i hate em'. DIFFERENT=BAD=WRONG
wait.. your a DUDE! i thought u where a girl!
Mk a lot of people don't realize, just because something is widley accepted dosen't make it right. There is a saying I read once
" Don't confuse the wants of a majority with the will of God"
i think is ok to be gay not cause alot of people are but i just think its ok in gods eyes. i dont take it as a sin.its emotions. its hard to control what u feel
I agree with Loveshaun that it's part of my beliefs, but I do not discriminate against gay people. I have several openly gay and bi friends, and whilst they don't share my views, they accept that as part of me, like I accept their sexual orientation. Male and female species exist for a reason in my opinion, and it's wrong to go against that, but I, in no way shape or form, am totally against the people. It is their choice. Just say I smoked, and smoking is bad for you and they didn't like it, they wouldn't shut me out, they would just accept me and move on. It's a personal choice, and if they choose it, then I'll accept them regardless. I knew this topic would come up as soon as religion was raised, and I know it's going to get out of hand, but I would just like to say that there is no wrong or right when it comes to opinion, so long as it does not encourage hatred or threats to anyone. Mine does not, and neither should anyone else's.
Puppylove, being in control of our emotions ( like anger, lust, or even just spitefulness), is part of what God want's us to do, and not having control ( or, put another way, not exercising, or attempting control) is a sin. Our emotions and how we react to things are very much connected to and are one of the major causes of our sin.
LoveShaun19 is absolutely right! The Bible (which I accept as wholly true), tells us that God wants us to have self-control. We shouldn't always give in to our emotions. For example, let's say I went hunting but didn't get anything, so I'm angry. Now let's say I acted on my anger and held up a grocery store on the way home. I've let my emotions control me when it should be the other way around.
As to GLB's comment: I don't judge or discriminate against homosexuals either. I have a neighbor who's homosexual. Do I want him to stop and become a Christian? Of course! But I won't sit there and think "That guy's shouldn't even come close to heaven!" because first of all, that's wrong, and it's also a waste of my time.
PS: Cracking Toast, if you don't want to read different opinions, the easiest thing to do would be to not read them at all. Now, pardon me, I've got a banjo to play.
@puppylove. No, i'm a girl.... i suppose it would be better to say "I'm not LESBIAN but I dont dislike them" sorry!
@... everyone else? Gay is fine. I'ts a choice, i think, though many say that they were born that way (<3 lady gaga!) its not cool for some of the crazy homophobes to say it's a disease. First of all, its deragatory to homosexuals, saying that its a "genetic problem" or "something they CONTRACTED" I'ts also derogatory to people with actual diseases. Would you really go up to a cancer patient and say "Oh yes u have a 13% percent chance of survival, but at least your not GAY!" (my aunt has a 13% chance of survival from ovarian cancer )
@LoveShaun19 its true that not every thing popular is right, but a lot of things that are popular AND right now started off as unpopular
Mk, all I can say is ( respectfully) that I know what I believe to be true, and that is what I'll continue to believe. In the case of things being popular, sometimes one should rely on simple good judgment and common sense.( Please just take this as advice and not like I'm " getting on" you or anything. here are my thoughts on deciding what is right in the face of popular/unpopular opinion) Just because something changes in popularity ( good or bad) doesn’t change what it is at the root of the issue. Popularity and opinion is never a good thing to base your beliefs off of whether it is something that was unpopular and them became more so, or the other way around. One always has to judge things for what they are, not what they are viewed as, because ultimately it is what you believe and what you do based off that belief is what you are held accountable for, and if you went along, or against something, truly knowing in your heart what is wrong or right, and choosing to ( maybe not even concisely at the time) to ignore it, that is what matters, not what is viewed as acceptable or not acceptable by the world. Your personal thoughts and actions are the only things that speak for yourself. Judge something by what is true, what you know, and common sense. ( In my case, the Bible is what I base my beliefs off of, and it is my foundation for thinking). " Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable-if anything is excellent or praiseworthy-think about such things." (Philippians chapter 4 verse 8 ) And practice them too. Judge things by these standards and see if you can honestly, truly, in your heart, believe that ( whatever issue that arises) is in accordinance with this, regardless of what popularity, opinion, media, peer pressure and the world tell you. If one can Truly say " this thing/thought/practice ( whatever) is in accordance with these standards." , chances are good, that it is the truth, ( as long as you are truly, honest with yourself). Just as reversely, if something does not " hold up" as it were, then can one truly, honestly, comfortably, convince themselves it is right? If we are really honest, and pure with our judgments we should see what is right and wrong clearer. Unfortunately, our human desires, and wants cloud our thoughts; and sometimes ( even sometimes without fully realizing it) we don't want to know the truth.
i count put it better than glb myself but... your 17 and u use to smoke??? u could say that cigarets scare me a little cause my parents use to smoke and it was really really hard for them to stop. my mom "stopped" but she start to smoke all over again from time to time. i just dont wanna die from the smoke cause its alot worse for the person that breaths it than the one that smokes. i have to say that i convive with people that smoke all the time on my drama school but i still try to keep as much away from me as possible. and loveshaun, i said that its HARD to control your emotions and we have to do it cauase its right but sometime people just cant and period( like a guy that likes another guy) we cant be punished for feeling something and thats why i think its not a sin to be gay.so... yeah.
Just to point out, it isn't a sin to have feelings, only to act on those feelings.
WHAT?! No no no no I never have and would never smoke, that was just an example. Passive smoking is bad too, I stay away from it...
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